• Crafting stories in sound with Nicolas Snyder

    Crafting stories in sound with Nicolas Snyder

    Storytelling shines throughout Nicolas Snyder’s work. With a background in writing short stories, the filmmaker, composer, and sound artist approaches creative projects with an eye for narrative detail, crafting sonic arcs and layering elements that elicit certain emotions to create a dynamic listening journey. His diverse sources of inspiration pull him in all directions, resulting in a rich body of work guided by intuition.

     

    Nicolas captures the spirit of following instinct and leading with heart. He reminds us to keep searching for the story and finding it in the everyday.

    What inspires the way you create and think about sound and music?

     

    My approach to sound and music is fluid, to be honest. It’s always evolving, both in my professional work and personal music. I don’t always have a clear vision from the start. It really depends on how I’m feeling at the moment. Sometimes I create without knowing what it will be used for. It’s like collecting various textures and colors that eventually come together to form something cohesive, like a patchwork quilt of sound.

    When listening to your albums, it’s also sometimes hard to tell where one track ends and another begins. Is that intentional?


    It’s interesting you mention that. Sometimes, the only difference between tracks is the session they were created in. I always try to connect them so they form a continuous journey.

     

    I’m close to finishing an album where, even though the tracks flow seamlessly, there’s a consistent, static mood throughout—it feels very blue to me.

    Nicolas Snyder - Mood Talk - Objects & Sounds - 1

    What made you decide to take this direction with the new album?

     

    I’ve always been drawn to the idea of a mood album. Some of my favorite records evoke a certain feeling from start to finish, and I wanted to create something similar—an album that captures a specific sound and place from beginning to end.

    How do you go about collecting and choosing sounds for your compositions?


    Oh, it’s always different. I have all sorts of things around me: lots of microphones, gongs, organ pipes, and various other strange instruments.

    I’ve got a piano in the back here that I’ve modified a bit with some gift wrapping paper to give it a crunchy, earthy sound. I recorded myself playing it for about 40 minutes and then picked out the parts I liked most. In a William S. Burroughs-esque way, I cut up and rearrange these snippets, take them out of context, and then layer synth and string elements on top. I also like to incorporate field recordings and film samples.

    I enjoy working ‘in the box’ a lot. I often use MIDI keyboards, which might not sound as glamorous as some other processes, but there’s an infinite range of possibilities in there. Many people are creating beautiful virtual instruments with detailed imperfections built into them, and I especially like to highlight those subtle nuances.

     

    But again, I’m always shifting from one thing to another. I take it day by day and don’t always know how it’s going to evolve.

    Do you plan out the concept of an album beforehand, or does it come about naturally through experimentation?

     

    Well, I often think in terms of albums and the art of making one. It’s something I’m drawn to, and it guides me. However, when I’m actually creating a piece, I don’t always know where it’s going to lead. It’s a very stream-of-consciousness approach.

     

    Often, as I’m finishing a project, I’ll create a track that deviates from the overall feel, sparking a new direction I might want to head in. Then, I’ll try to create pieces that complement it or fit well alongside it. This process serves as my compass, but I never have a clear path from point A to point Z. 

     

    Sometimes it’s straightforward, and other times, it goes all over the place.

    How does your experience in film and sound design shape the way you approach your own music?

     

    It’s just how I approach music-making. I don’t really consider myself a musician. I’m decent at playing the piano or guitar, but that’s not where I focus my practice. I like to create music that complements visual storytelling.

     

    When I create something personal, it often carries cinematic elements or a narrative arc that pokes out, even if there isn’t a specific story I’m aiming to convey. That’s just how my mind works. It’s the muscle I’ve worked out the most.

    Nicolas Snyder - Mood Talk - Objects & Sounds - 7

    It seems like creating a narrative with sound is something you’re naturally drawn to. 

     

    Yeah, it’s something I naturally gravitate towards. I initially pursued writing short stories and even got a degree in writing, although I didn’t take it further. But when I’m making music, I often think in terms of crafting a short story—conveying a complete arc, adding elements of mystery and surprise, and creating dynamic shifts. It’s not always a conscious process. It’s just how my mind works when I’m in the creative zone.

    Did you always want to bring elements of storytelling into your music?

     

    I go back and forth. In the beginning, I tried writing more traditional songs because there’s a certain beauty in familiarity. But I’m driven to create things that feel new and surprising. It’s just not exciting for me if I’m not exploring uncharted territory. That’s why there are so many surprise turns in my music. I’m constantly trying to surprise myself. It’s like walking down a corridor, about to open a door. What is the most beautiful, surprising thing I can find on the other side of that door?

    And do you imagine a movie playing in your mind when you’re creating the narrative?

     

    Not really. These are just metaphors. It’s not so much a visual experience as it is a feeling. I often think of creating sound as building a three-dimensional space—a place that doesn’t actually exist but can be imagined in a certain way.

    How has your sound evolved over the years since you started composing and producing music?

     

    I’ve gone through many phases as a music creator, and it’s hard for me to quantify what has changed. I’m in my 40s now, and it took a long time for me to reach a point where I truly understand what I’m doing as an artist, not just in music but in anything I create, whether it’s woodworking or painting. I’m content with where I am now and not in a rush to change that. Lately, I’ve been writing more traditional songs on guitar because it feels right. I’m often drawn to creating things that simply feel good, no matter the genre. I may not know exactly how to articulate it, but I recognize that feeling when it comes. These days, it’s much easier for me to identify what resonates with me.

    Do you have any rituals or routines that help you get into that creative mindset, whether for music, woodworking, or painting?

     

    No, I have to fit it into every little nook and cranny of my life. I’m quite busy with work, and I find myself traveling a lot. Still, I wouldn’t feel like myself if I didn’t do something creative.

     

    If I had to choose, my ideal scenario would be waking up with nothing planned for the day, just taking my time and eventually creating something without overthinking it. Just doing it because it feels good. But I don’t always have the time for that.

    Do you ever see yourself combining your different creative pursuits into a single, cohesive project?

     

    I would love to create tangible spaces one day, maybe through installations or similar projects. Something immersive that you can physically experience. Imagine a ramshackle structure you step into, instantly transporting you to a realm that’s a bit fantastical and primal.

    Nicolas Snyder - Mood Talk - Objects & Sounds - 5

    What’s a recent project or experience that has really moved you?

     

    I recently released an album that was a highly collaborative project with a poet named Spoon Jackson, who is serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole. 

     

    Spoon recited his poems to me over a prison phone built into the wall. I recorded our conversations using an app on my phone and then composed music around them. It was an incredibly rewarding process, and I’m immensely proud of the album. It has more of a song-to-song feel compared to my last two albums, yet it retains many similar textures.

     

    Collaborating with someone in such a beautifully limiting environment was deeply rewarding. Throughout the album, you can hear artifacts of the process, like the electronic female voice that periodically interrupts the conversations—Spoon refers to her as the “computer lady.” I also incorporated sound textures to evoke a sense of a prison dream world, as many of Spoon’s poems revolve around his dreams and fantasies—experiences he hasn’t had in the physical world since he was incarcerated at the age of 19.

    How old is he now?

     

    He’s in his seventies. He’s never had a cell phone, never been on an airplane, and never experienced many things we take for granted. Through his poetry, he’s created a beautiful dream life, though some of it is very sad and real. Yet, there’s also this vivid romance inside him that he can only express through his poetry and art. I felt it was powerful to support him in that and to paint his dream world with music.

    Nicolas Snyder - Mood Talk - Objects & Sounds - 4

    How did you get into the project?

     

    There’s a record label that was originally called Die Jim Crow Records, named after a set of laws in the U.S. that were aimed at oppressing Black people without explicitly stating it. They’re now called FREER Records, and they work exclusively with incarcerated or recently released individuals.

     

    During COVID, the label posted that they were looking for producers and musicians to collaborate with incarcerated people. My dad had been in prison for two years, so I felt a strong connection and empathy for that world.

     

    They sent me a recording of Spoon reciting a poem, and I really liked how it turned out. I asked if they could put me in touch with him. He called me and said, ‘So I hear you’re interested in making some music together,’ and we’ve been talking ever since. That was about two to three years ago. I didn’t expect it to turn into an entire album.

    Wow, that sounds like an experience that will stay with you for a long time. Considering the immersive and intentional nature of your music, how do you envision people experiencing it? Is there a particular setting or mindset you recommend for listeners?

     

    I’d say somewhere comfortable. When I picture it, I imagine reclining on pillows. It might sound trite, but for albums like Spell of Remembrance, it’s like embarking on a psychedelic journey. You’d want to approach it with that kind of mindset. It’s not passive ambient music in the traditional sense, like Brian Eno’s idea of being as ignorable as it is interesting. I also appreciate music that doesn’t demand to be the center of attention, though some of my albums definitely command focus. I want it to feel like a trip.

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  • animating life with Love Is Yes

    animating life with Love Is Yes

    When you enter the world of Love Is Yes, you’ll immediately encounter whimsical melodies and colorful characters that come to life in an imaginative display of sound and image. Behind the mischief and delight are Sander van der Toorn and Dax Niesten, whose eponymous debut album, ‘Love Is Yes,’ is marked by whispered tales etched between fragments of time, like stories in the sand.

     

    Despite their disparate approaches to making music, Love Is Yes is a testament to the cohesive magic and joy they’re able to create together, a multi-faceted experience that we gratefully want to explore with a full-hearted “yes.”

    What creative projects were you both working on before you began collaborating on Love Is Yes?

     

    Sander: I released an album called Vervlogenheden in 2022. It’s an instrumental album created entirely with a Fender Rhodes. I started working on another album afterward, but it ended up being a bit too dark and grainy. Some tracks from that project made it onto the Love is Yes album, where they surprisingly didn’t sound as dark.

     

    Dax: My last musical project was a solo album called Pockets, which I also released in 2022. I collaborated with Sander and Felbm on it. Since then, I’ve mainly focused on painting and creating animations.

    Why did you decide to make an album together?

     

    Dax: It kind of came naturally, since we live together and have both been making music individually for some time. While we had previously collaborated on my solo album, the idea of creating a duo project together had always been on my mind.

     

    Sander: Dax had always been keen on collaborating with each other, but our creative processes are like night and day. When I make music, about 80% of it happens in my head. Dax starts more from a place of chaos.

     

    Dax: We both just approach making music very differently. I see it as a continuous exploration, and I work on it whenever I have time. I don’t need to schedule it. Sander really needs to focus on creating music without distractions, so creating the new album together was really about tuning in with each other. Once we found a way of working that matched both of us, it went pretty quickly, especially because we both had snippets and recordings lying around that we could build upon.

    Objects & Sounds | Mood Talk | Love Is Yes 03

    How did you merge your individual approaches into a cohesive sound?

     

    Sander: Have you heard of the album Mother Is The Milky Way by Broadcast? That album, where anything goes and everything happens, was a kind of blueprint for our collaboration. Their tracks are more than just songs—they incorporate various field recordings and unexpected elements, which really resonates with our taste and how we like to explore and enjoy music.

    And how did you manage to strike a middle ground while working together?

     

    Sander: I used to focus on writing traditional songs, but then I shifted to making instrumental pieces. Over time, I started to miss the songwriting aspect, while I sensed that Dax was maybe getting tired of it. So, we began layering ideas and experimenting, and somehow everything just clicked.

     

    Dax: For me, the most enjoyable part isn’t necessarily the music itself. I feel much more at home with creating animations and crafting visual elements. That’s where I can really think freely and explore different paths, whereas Sander tends to spend more time thinking about the music itself.

     

    Sander: Yeah, but not so much on the songwriting.

     

    Dax: I mainly write the lyrics and the melodies, but when it comes to blending everything together and working with ambient sounds, that’s really what Sander is good at.

     

    Sander: We also got things done pretty quickly. That was another middle ground for us.

    Do you typically spend more time on your projects, Sander?

     

    Sander: When I used to write songs, I’d often dwell on them, sometimes overthinking. But with instrumental music, I’ve learned to finish them more quickly.

    Your music often touches on fleeting memories and transient moments, and it seems to carry through with your duo project.


    Sander: I’ve been drawn to this concept lately. To me, it feels like capturing a moment in time with music. The feeling it evokes is undeniably there, but then it evaporates in a few seconds. Yet, it still remains, in a way. I find it intriguing, this idea of working more with sound and less with structure.

    Objects & Sounds | Mood Talk | Love Is Yes 04

    Dax, in what ways do the visual elements you create interact with the music?

     

    Dax: I’m really enjoying working on the animations and visual elements within this project, because I have the freedom to do anything I want. The songs on the album aren’t confined to literal interpretations, so it gives me the space to play and experiment. It feels like I’m exploring an ever-shifting world, where certain characters keep resurfacing, their stories evolving and finally intertwining with the music I create. I find it really interesting how my previous solo music, though always accompanied by visual elements, never quite clicked with the visuals in the same way it does now.

    Why do you think that is?

     

    Dax: For some reason, when I’m not solely responsible for creating the music, it just seems to make more sense. Sander and I also share a very similar taste and perspective on the world and how we interact with it, which also explains why the visuals and music click more effortlessly now. 

     

    He’s also able to express what I envision in music more effectively because my musical ability is more limited. It’s like speaking a language where I know some words and grammar, but it still feels rough around the edges, whereas he’s really fluent in it and can really articulate all its nuances.

     

    Sander: I also think it’s the most cohesive work we’ve done where everything just makes sense: the paintings, the animations, the music I make, the music Dax makes. It all fits together perfectly. I am also very happy with the band name we’ve chosen. Can you think of something more positive than “Love Is Yes?”

    How would you describe your duo project to someone unfamiliar with your drawings or music?

     

    Sander: Richard from Kit Records summed it up nicely when he said, “Well, it’s weird, but I could still play it at a dinner party.”

     

    I’m not sure if it will make sense to everyone, definitely not to my mother, but I just hope that it speaks for itself when you see the album cover, the animations, or listen to the music. 

     

    I’ve also never really tried to describe the music I create in depth. It’s just…it is what it is. I think everyone who makes music has a really hard time describing what they make. When you talk about it, all of a sudden it can sound really pretentious or something bigger than it originally was.

    So, what’s next?

     

    Sander: Dax has plans for a dance album next, but she has the weirdest ideas about what a dance album is. When I put on Philip Glass’s Einstein On The Beach, it’s a dance album for her.

     

    Dax: Yes, because I have no rhythm, but I have great dancing skills. They are just a bit particular.

     

    Sander: Maybe we’ll explore making something really loud at some point, but we’re not sure yet. We’re already brainstorming ideas for new music, though.

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  • women who’ve inspired us

    women who’ve inspired us

    women who’ve inspired us

    Here’s to the women in music, whose creativity and curiosity have not only made a mark on us but also blazed inspiring trails for all.

    Anat Ben-David
    Anat’s music is equally experimental and accessible, ranging from pop to opera to improv to avant-garde. She makes videos to each track and uses it live. Always surprising and intriguing, constantly seeking to research, learn and evolve
    Avi Pitchon
    Zoe Polanski
    Zoe’s album ‘Violent Flowers,’ came into my life early into the pandemic and became my companion on drives into nature, while cooking, reading in the backyard. It will always feel like a close friend.
    cynthia bernard (marine eyes)
    Cosey Fanni Tutti
    My singular most impressive listen in a long while. Spearheaded by a key figure in electronic music in the UK from the 80′ onwards. A sincere thank to Emma for shedding light on this 22′ trip. Visceral, and as such it needs growth
    Otis Verhoeve
    Éliane Radigue
    For me personally, Radigue’s approach to atmospheres, overtones and instruments she involves in her sonic works is genuine and authentic. Especially, how accurate she performs sonorous transformation by using synths.
    Irina
    Caroline Crawley
    Caroline Crawley’s fragile voice in “Song to the Siren” touches me deeply evoking a melancholic beauty that words cannot express.
    Milou
    Rosalia
    #038;si=s_pHDZ-OQJfU-P9f
    I think her charisma and her freedom in creating music and also a unique style (visual and musical). Furthermore, seeing her perform live is always very inspiring because it conveys so much passion and fun.
    Simona
    Anja Lauvdal
    I was inspired by her way of creating sounds that suspend time, in a sensitive and gentle way.
    Sabrina
    Linda Buckley
    The first time I encountered Buckley’s work was a piece performed at BBC’s Tectonics Festival. It was 1 of 6 pieces performed by the orchestra that weekend & it blew me away. I was mesmerised by the emotion of that piece & everything I’ve heard since
    Emma
    Perila
    How to approach space and environment, sense of distance.
    Saigetsu Takayama 🇯🇵
    Pauline Anna Strom
    🧘‍♀️
    Fred
    Julianna Barwick
    This track in particular is one of my favourites ever. The vocals paired with the sounds feel like rays of sun shining onto my face.
    Sofie
    Wendy Carlos
    A brilliant musician, scientist, and explorer of electronic sounds and instruments. I have the deepest respect for her.
    Mariah
    Sonja Tofik & Mar-llena
    Intriguing music often appears deceptively simple. Despite having only a handful of layers, this song pulls me in with its expansive feeling. Within its simplicity, a complex mixture of hope, wonder, and tension arises.
    Alec
    Valley
    Valley’s music and mixes resonate with my soul. The melancholic and ambient tones possess a rare ability to synchronize perfectly with the ebb and flow of my emotions.
    Sofie
    Laurie Anderson
    My first (and only, haha!) tattoo says “x = x.” Laurie’s playful approach to art, and finding inspiration in everything, is such a beautiful reminder of what we can uncover with curiosity as our guide.
    Allie

    Is there a woman artist or several artists you want to share about? 

  • 6 Longform Editions for imagining new realms

    6 Longform editions for imagining new realms

    Since 2018, Longform Editions has been bringing together a diverse range of established and emerging artists from all over the world to create absorptive listening experiences for the everyday.

     

    Intrigued by their roster that is expansive as it is inclusive, we reached out to Andrew Khedoori to share with us his favorite longform editions that create the perfect sonic backdrop for his current state of mind.

    “I made my selections from a farm where I was staying, essentially surrounded by vast green expanse and sedate animals. Perhaps that scene prompted most of these choices: I think about the breadth of the world and its possibilities in these spaces more than within the daily urban grind. Many of the works we’ve released are about spaces both real and imagined, often blurring the lines between both those realms, prompting feelings of re-evaluation and freedom. They are worlds unto themselves. As much as I love songs and what they can conjure in a short time, longer pieces have a different focus and perspective. I love having both in my life.”

    Longform Editions | Mood List
    r beny – we grow in a gleam

    I have two small children and the task of leaving them to sleep is often long and fraught. Music figures highly in the process after reading. I can choose from many Longform Editions works for us all to listen to, but this one from r beny has the right touch. It is beautiful, peaceful and meditative and it hangs like the last lingering light of the evening.

    Danny Paul Grody – Sunrise, Looking East

    Whenever I want to open out, feel rejuvenated or reset, it’s likely I’ll put on some work from Danny Paul Grody. Danny and I connected a decade ago. I struck up a conversation with him online back then, asking him to recommend places to stay in his hometown of San Francisco. He detailed all sorts of areas and accommodations for nearly an hour then offered his own home to me. Danny’s approach to life is the same as his approach to music. It is caring and considerately handled, but never precious.

    Angel Bat Dawid – Harkening Etudes

    Even when the subject matter is dark and confronting, there is a sense of joy in Angel Bat Dawid’s work that mainlines to the heart. Harkening Etudes was made for Longform Editions by Angel specifically to convey the joy of listening to music to ‘let your ears breathe’. There’s a lovely, uplifting feeling of contentment every time I take this incredible, singular work in.

    Gavilán Rayna Russom – Trans Feminist Symphonic Music

    This truly epic work is awe-inspiring and reminds me there is so much more out there in the world beyond my own headspace. One of the great things about curating Longform Editions is being exposed to thought processes and perspectives we have either not encountered previously or been able to give voice to ourselves. You can be initially attracted to the way someone composes with sound – that’s important – and Longform Editions offers a chance to go deeper with a focus within an expanded space. Music is of course a powerful artform for this, and this piece captures that ideal perfectly.

    Valentina Magaletti – Different Rooms

    I suppose I want to listen to this piece from the ever-amazing Valentina Magaletti for the same reason I might want to watch a David Lynch film. The whole act places you in a state of unknowing from the start, there is no circuitous route and a devilish mix of horror and comedy throughout. We’re all willing to get twisted in some way from time to time – Valentina makes it a wicked pleasure to do so.

    Megan Alice Clune – Digital Auras

    Megan Alice Clune’s work has that disembodying, unmooring feeling and Digital Auras captures our agency in the digital space. We’re wrapped in it, but never truly wholly connected. It may be the search for that connection keeping us going back to the temporal wheel. I love how I feel I can float within this piece, even if it can also feel somewhat ominous at times, like thinking someone is looking over your shoulder.

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  • expanding musical corners with Ali Safi

    Expanding musical corners with Ali Safi

    Meet Marionette: a Toronto-based label run by Ali Safi that is consistently surprising, yet surprisingly consistent in output. 

     

    Going through the label’s catalogue is like stumbling on a bottomless treasure trove. Every release is a world of its own. Charming, elaborate, and disparate, but together they form a coherent whole.

     

    As it is impossible to miss the level of care and detail that goes into every Marionette release, we couldn’t help but ask Ali to give us a small peep behind the scenes. He takes us through the label’s past and excitedly shares with us a few glimpses of what’s yet to come.

    How would you describe the sound of Marionette to someone who’s never listened to your releases?

     

    The commonality in some of the releases is the interplay between organic acoustic and electronic synthesized sounds and often not knowing which is which. I’m utterly fascinated by this interplay and I’m drawn to the experimental state of mind related to the making of this kind of music. I’m always on the lookout for artists whose ways of working inspire me to the point where I’m compelled to connect and invite them to contribute to the label.

    What inspired you to start Marionette?

     

    I see Marionette as a way for me to express my passion for music and my discoveries, and also to connect with people and have experiences I would not have had otherwise. It’s sort of an extension to all the other facets that come with the excitement of discovering music for me, like reading and writing about it, learning about the inspiration and context, and finding a visual language around it. It evolved from my dream of wanting to DJ when I was younger. A part of me still does. Beats, techno, and the afterhours were my gateway.

     

    I made a bold decision quite early on to pursue all the dream artists on my list without waiting until I was more established. I’ve come a long way and grown with every release and artist. I have to give credit where it’s due to Kilchhofer for guiding me and teaching me things from the lens of a true artist. His contributions to the label far exceed the album covers and his releases. Also to Laurine Frost and Marco Papiro who continue to encourage and challenge me on a daily basis.

     

    I always personally invite the artists I work with, yet I never really know what the outcome is. I like to be surprised. The artists are much more imaginative than I’ll ever be. I also enjoy looking for unlikely collaborations. With Regression for example, I found out through some digging that Razen were about to collaborate with the Australian percussionist Will Guthrie. Coincidentally, I was in touch with both Guthrie and Brecht on separate occasions for a potential project, so it just made sense and felt natural to release it together. I think the same of Sulla Pelle with Valentina Magaletti and Julian Sartorius and also with Viridescens by Francesco Cavaliere and Tomoko Sauvage.

     

    I always viewed myself as an amateur running a label, but I’ve come to learn that I don’t think there is any particular skill involved other than knowing how to inspire artists and giving them the space to express themselves. That and also doing all the administration, shipping, promotions, and building meaningful relationships along the way. I sometimes wish I could focus on the curating bit and working with the artists only, but I guess I’m too much of a control freak to let the other things go.

    O&S | Mood Talk | Ali Safi | Marionette

    Your releases always feel and sound very coherent, even though the artists you work with often come from very different backgrounds.

     

    All of the artists are very engrossed in their own peculiar worlds. They are on a quest to search for sound and meaning. It’s somehow very intimate and personal, and I think that also shows in how the releases end up being presented.

     

    I see the trajectory of the label like a hike on an uncharted trail. As if with every release I’m setting markers along this imaginary map of music. But this map is just a part of a much bigger map and somehow I feel like I’m a part of this conversation or at least that I have something to contribute.

     

    I also feel like the label has reached a point where it can inspire artists to contribute something to it.

    There’s something primal about the releases, as well.

     

    I think that the music is very primal because it’s accessing inner emotion, or giving you a window into someone’s soul somehow. Once you get a sense of that, you’re able to tell when artists are tapping into that, and that really draws me in.

     

    The most difficult part for me is building a language around their work. How can I put the artists’ visions into words? As I write the release texts, I get a deeper sense of that.

    It must be very intimate and personal to write all the texts yourself.

     

    I must confess that I’ve gotten a lot of help along the way, initially from Kilchhofer and sometimes from the artists themselves. I often send questions like an informal interview to guide the text. But for the last little while, I’ve been mostly writing them myself and gotten a lot more confident.

     

    Apart from the music and the artwork, the release texts hold a great importance for the label. It helps in capturing the intent and thought behind a release.

     

    I’ve also realized how writing has made me experience music in a more profound way, and I try to drop some of that understanding into the texts. Maybe there are some phrases about people, events, or movements that someone might have not been aware of, and through reading they can start their own search.

     

    I like to challenge myself daily, in that regard. I like to listen to new things, in a way where I’m actually discovering someone or an album that I did not know about or maybe even vaguely knew something about. I enjoy learning about the historical significance of a particular artist or genre.

    That sounds like a great daily habit.

     

    Music is such an interesting medium for me. Unlike books or films, I find that you can play a record on repeat for a good while before you move on, while simultaneously learning about it.

     

    Hybridizing sounds that don’t necessarily conform to any particular category or genre always gets me excited. I feel like every record released so far touches on a corner of music in some way and I want to expand on that, rather than continue to build on one corner only. 

    O&S | Mood Talk | Ali Safi | Marionette

    How involved are you in the production of the albums?

     

    Stitching an album together is probably one of the parts I love the most. More than just the track selection itself, selecting the order of the tracks is actually a very important part of the process. What goes on the A-side? Which track are we starting with? How will the album end? 

     

    I try to imagine how the music will be perceived and how the imaginary audience would experience it. I usually know exactly how I feel about the music when I hear it within seconds. Although in some instances I’ve revisited albums which I initially overlooked that I then came to love.

    Do you sometimes feel like you aren’t able to find new music anymore?

     

    Oh absolutely! Sometimes I find myself in a rut and the way I would break out of it is to start listening to more pop or hip hop or dance music. In doing that, I would slowly start hearing the elements that get me curious about music and it often triggers my need to go on an experimental deep dive once more.

     

    The other thing is that lately I have so many upcoming releases that I’m always listening to and I try to balance how much label material I am listening to versus discovering new music. I want to be aware of what’s going on but that’s not so easy nowadays.

    You started Marionette in 2013. What have you learned along the way that you would maybe do differently or perhaps want to share with your younger self?

     

    The pursuit is endless. It’s always a work in progress. Once you accept that, your way of perceiving and experiencing that pursuit will dramatically change. Maybe I didn’t realize that back when I started. I always had more finite goals that I wanted to reach. Being able to still feel inspired after all these years is something I value greatly and don’t take for granted.

    Looking ahead, what are you most excited about in the years to come?

     

    The anticipation of putting a record out is what keeps me going to the next. I’ve got around seven releases lined up after Max Loderbauer’s Petrichor—which is a catalogue milestone—and I know how the next two to three years look for Marionette. 

     

    The first release of 2023 will be from Brussels-based Roxanne Métayer. Roxane transforms conventional instruments and creates quite an intimate space where folk, drone, ambient and experimental music intersect.

     

    There’s also going to be a new MinaeMinae 2LP album coming up next year. Bastian sent me dozens of tracks and I’ve just been listening to them obsessively, over and over again, going through the cycles of selecting and reselecting and ordering and reordering, and we finally nailed it down to an album that I have high expectations for.

     

    There’s also Delphine Dora with a piano-not-just-piano album that’s cosmic, dreamy, and quite different to her previous works. I’m equally excited about that too. And then there’s a mysterious release which I will keep under wraps for now, that one is a bit of a banger.

     

    There are many other things that are still in their early phases, but the seeds have been planted, so it’s just about waiting and taking it one release at a time as always.

    Seems like you’re all set for the foreseeable future. Any big plans for the next decade to come?

     

    I’ll obviously start getting hungry for what comes after the next three years, and I’ll probably be reformulating how to keep it compelling. I’d like to believe that I will be doing it in a way that keeps me inspired and driven. I would also like to share music more consistently via other means, such as in a live setting and a monthly radio show. There are also plans for a couple of label showcases in the near future.

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  • time as an ally for Cristian Subirà

    Time as an ally for Cristian Subirà

    Barcelona-based Cristian Subirà has come to direct his musical career by mostly taking an observer’s perspective. He’s gone by a number of monikers, such as Summer Recreation Camp, Cosmic D’Alessandro, Nubian Deli, and Quanta, as a means of stepping behind the scenes and detaching preconceptions to his identity.

     

    In 2018, he released his first album ‘Modified Perspectives’ as Jason Kolàr on Stroom. While it may seem like yet another new moniker, the name seemed to have stuck, as Jason Kolàr reappeared on Dauw three years later with not just one but two albums ‘Loops & Pieces’ and ‘Liquid Rhythm.’

     

    We caught up with Cristian to learn more about his evolving musical journey, and time—perhaps his greatest companion.

    Why Jason Kolàr?

     

    I stumbled upon an interview with a real estate agent named Jason Kolar. He looked like an average American, who is really anonymous in a certain way, and that fitted perfectly to this idea of having a moniker. The idea of running away from the ego of an artist.

     

    When you make music or art that is meaningful to people, I think it puts them in a position of power because they know something about you, but you don’t know anything about them.

     

    I’ve done a lot of different things involving music, and I’ve always found it interesting to be on different sides. I’ve run a radio and organized shows, but I have also been a musician playing at a venue or on tour. Depending on what you do, people would treat you differently. I think it’s interesting to have these many perspectives of the same situation. It gives you more empathy and respect for the people you work with.

    Do you pick which moniker would fit best with a release?

     

    When I start making a piece and it doesn’t fit with the moniker I’m using at a certain moment, I just make up something new. I like the idea of keeping things very different. People also really enjoy finding new things.

    How has your music making evolved over the years? 

     

    The music I’m making, especially in the last five years, is based on this idea of making something that is very minimal. Something that is very simple. Something that is not overproduced.

     

    I went to Atonal in Berlin a few years ago and mostly everything was just so histrionic, crazy, loud, and effective. I’m going the other way around. I want to have as little as possible to make a song. If I can make a piece with four tracks, then why use 25?

    Jason Kolar | Mood Talk | Stroom | Dauw | Modified Perspectives | Liquid Rhythm

    Do you think you have already found your sound?

     

    I’m still searching, but I’m at a point where I feel satisfied with the sound I am creating. I take more time now as well to make music. I’m also taking more pauses to just listen to what I’m doing and embrace the silence. I think silence is very important in music. It’s something I already knew, but I realized it maybe more over the years.

    One of the themes that keep coming back in your work is time. Why is that important for you?

     

    Time and repetition are very important concepts to me. When you’re listening to something repetitive, maybe the piece remains static, but you’re changing while you’re listening to it.

     

    I also always think a lot about my time on Earth. I want to use my time in a meaningful way. I like being on a train just to stare out of the window and look at the countryside. I like how repetitive nature is.

    What makes you want to pick up your gear and start working on an album?

     

    I often make new music when there’s a need for it. I don’t rush making new music or finding new labels. If the time is right, the opportunities will present themselves. There were a couple of years between ‘Modified Perspectives’ and ‘Loops & Pieces.’ But that’s how it works for me, I consider time as an ally.

     

    The spark to start making new music often comes from playing live. When I have a presentation show for a release, I don’t want to just strictly play music from that release. I like creating new music for it. The end of one process often marks the start of a new process. Rehearsing for a show also always gives me new ideas and new directions to explore.

    Jason Kolar - Cristian Subira - Mood Talk 3

    What’s the concept behind your latest album Liquid Rhythm?

     

    People often tell me that my music is great to put on while working. I don’t relate my music to being productive. Ambient music is, by definition, background music. But if you just stop and listen, there’s so much more to it. It’s like listening to the flow of the river or the sea. It’s greatly enjoyable but not while you’re having a phone call. That’s the idea of Liquid Rhythm. It’s just like water escaping from your hands. It’s something fluid. I suppose it has something to do with being born and raised in a city that has the sea nearby.

    Where does your inspiration flow from?

     

    The music I make always seems to be a mirror of my emotional state.

     

    When I was younger, I remember making music that is fast, noisy, and angry. Music has always been like therapy to me.  It’s like a conductor of my emotions, from frustration and sadness to nostalgia and hope.

     

    The music that I’m making now is very calm, as I have also been very calm. I just calmed myself down over the years. I think listening to ambient music for many years, even when it wasn’t as popular as it is right now, has helped me a lot in finding something to be emotionally connected to.

     

    It sounds very New Age-y what I’m saying, right? (laughs)

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  • 9 tracks by McBain for underrated midnight escapades

    9 tracks by McBain for underrated midnight escapades

    Ghent-based Brecht Van Dingenen is deeply entrenched in the captivatingly eccentric world of Stroom. More than being a fixture at their events, it is thanks to his influence that Stroom is strongly rooted to Belgium’s considerable musical heritage. Just flip the covers of the label’s archival releases of Benjamin Lew, Dark Arts and Adult Fantasies and you’ll see why.

     

    Last year, Brecht started a mixtape cassette series of his own called Midnight Vultures, inspired by cities at night bathed in moonlight and fluorescent street lamps.

     

    “Those dark hours set the perfect mood for me to listen to music. Looking out of the window at the street lights on a rainy night takes one to the twilight zone of feelings. A place that lies between hope and despair for the future. It makes me able to get into the moment and embrace life’s dramatic waves. Almost drowning in misery but holding on to a log of hope in the deep sea of the heart. Past failures get praised and victories fade away. One becomes proud of the daylight accomplished missions and the scheming mind begins to wander.”

     

    This mood list is an ode to the nightlife outside of the clubs: the street lights, the night shops, the broken lighters, the late night snacks, the sleepless nights, the ignored Whatsapp messages and everything in between.

     

    Photo by Kenneth Owens

    Midnight Vultures - McBain - Brecht Van Dingenen - Mixtape - Mood list
    Julie Driscoll & Brian Auger – When I Was a Young Girl

    I always listen to records at home with headphones. My ears are quite ruined because of it, but I keep doing it anyway. This song hits hard with the voice, lyrics and the organ. It feels like walking into a church, while Julie sings her heart out and Brian is on the organ. I’ll be sitting in the back and drinking wine, while smiling calmly, looking at the altar.

    Patrik Fitzgerald – Waiting For The Final Cue

    I like to listen to this one on a Saturday night, drinking alone in a rocking chair. Never really liked David Lynch or Nick Nave. I’d rather hung out with Patrik Fitzgerald. He never tried to be cool. He just had a story to tell.

    Once Upon a Time There Was a Pretty Fly (Night of the Hunter)

    I used this one as the intro for the mixtape. What can I say. It has quite an eerie feeling, but it’s so beautiful.

    Bernard Herrmann – Where is Everybody? (The Twilight Zone)

    I’ve got an obsession watching the Twilight Zone Series (1959-1964). Watching black and white series or movies really calms me down. The tempo of music and conversation is just different. This episode is the best one for first-time viewers. Rod Sterling is underrated and the Bernard Herrmann soundtrack is midnight audio gold.

    John Avery – Club of No Regrets

    I have gotten to know John Avery through Fre De Vos from Forced Nostalgia who gave me the CD some time ago. 

     

    Never learned to play the piano, but if I would have, I would want to play all night like this. These dramatic keys make me smile. It sounds dark, yet  it makes me hopeful for the future at the same time.

     

    The sun will rise in the morning, there is still coffee in the kitchen, the rent is paid and nobody is angry anymore. I can already hear the birds outside and maybe tomorrow I will find some peace of mind.

    VDR – Desolaat

    Around 11:30PM, I sometimes have the urge to go to the night shop. This song makes for the perfect soundtrack for that bike ride. Hazy vision, blinding car lights, and rain in your face. When you are at the store, you buy candy and beer because you are grown-up now and you have freedom. Consequences are for later, while lighting a cigarette. 

     

    Victor de Roo is a great musician and a great guy. I think he recently quit smoking and it shows you that he is a smart guy, while here I am still talking cigarettes and coffee like it’s 2006.

     

    Love this track. Listen to it please, if you are still reading this.

    Benjamin Lew & Steven Brown – Entendue

    It feels like we’re back in the church, but it’s more like an old monastery where some bishops make their own wine, candles and beer. It was a dream for me to work on a Benjamin Lew compilation. Sometimes dreams do come true, but they rarely do. Make sure you wake up again and don’t get stuck in the twilight zone.

    Carl Rogers – Journey Into Self

    Carl Rogers is opium for the ears to me. This video features a group of people talking to each other. You could regard it as proto podcast self-help type videos. Just hearing people talking in a slow tempo about emotional and social experiences before the Internet. As Carl Rogers would say: for the ones who are defeated by life.

     

    When they talk about receiving superficial compliments, “you gladly pick them up even if they are crumbs.” And finally, “growth occurs when individuals confront problems, struggle to master them, and through that struggle develop new aspects of their skills, capacities, views about life.”

    Steven Brown – Decade

    When that piano hits and the voice begins, those prolific lyrics always hits me. Just lay your head on the pillow, try again later, don’t take life too personally and start dreaming again. Once the demons stop dancing, the end becomes near and only tales are left.

     

    “I was lamenting the passing of the eighties, the decade I had claimed for mine, so much happened, in a way it was my whole life, until now, so I thought.” What an opening sentence. I get goosebumps every time.

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  • Allie Hatch’s 10 records for building bouquets

    Allie Hatch’s 10 records for building bouquets

    Our paths crossed with Allie last year. Little did we know back then that she would soon be part of our team. Currently based in Amsterdam, Allie lends her creative voice to Objects & Sounds with her playfully imaginative pen and listening ears. If you’ve been following our journey, you’ve already seen, read or listened to a lot of her inspirations seeping in the store and our releases.

     

    As we love how Allie effortlessly plays with words and how eclectic her music picks tend to be, what better way to bring this all together than with a mood list? She picked 10 records for building bouquets.

     

    Allie shares: “I’ve always had a fascination with flowers and how they have the unique ability to bring beauty to life’s most paradoxical moments. While growing up, my mom was a florist, and to this day, one of my favorite qualities about her is when she speaks expressively about flowers and how to build a bouquet.”

     

    We couldn’t have thought of a more fitting way to introduce Allie and celebrate this blooming addition to our team!

    Allie Hatch's 10 records for building bouquets - Mood List
    Kendra Smith – Kendra Smith Presents The Guild Of Temporal Adventurers

    This is an album I waited forever to buy, hoping I would stumble on it one day. I was lucky enough to receive it as a gift on my birthday from the best dad in the world, and now it’s one of my most treasured records. This track in particular always captures something indescribable, but very moving, for me. I can’t help but be swept away every time I hear it. 

    Various – Récit de Voyage 2

    Molly can do no wrong! Orion can do no wrong! A really lovely compilation that never fails to make me smile and dance.

    Marion Brown – Sweet Earth Flying

    After receiving some tragic news a few months ago, this was the only album I found myself able to play for the next 24 hours or so. A very emotional one for me, and definitely my favorite album from Marion Brown. 

    Nuron, As One – La Source

    In May 2020, peak covid, my small outing from the house would be a morning walk around Beatrixpark to see all of the flowers blooming, and then I would go home and play this record. Nuron returns, dropping some sweet honey to soothe our souls in otherwise dire times. 

    Mattheis, Ranie Ribeiro – Het Jaar Rond

    Ever since Ranie first sent me this track, I have been mesmerized! What a beautiful album from start to finish – it oscillates between near and far, touching on old memories and present perceptions. A very special release from two equally kind and talented artists. 

    Zaumne – Élévation

    Home alone, a gentle rain drums against the window, it’s the edge of early evening and nighttime, and this record is playing. Élévation really sticks with you – it seems to capture millions of micro-moments and sensorial experiences into four rich, alluring tracks. 

    Stanley Cowell – Musa: Ancestral Streams

    Another very emotional one for me. I am forever grateful for what Mr. Cowell contributed to the world through Strata-East and his own music.

    Yu Su – Yellow River Blue

    Yu Su is without a doubt one of my favorite contemporary artists. Mixing electronic and organic elements, she’s created such a distinctive and interesting sound that really seems to bloom from within – floral dub, we can say!

    Blue Eyed Soul – You Ain’t No Weight

    This is probably the best recommendation I’ve gotten from the Spotify algorithms. The haunting organ paired with the vocals of Lynn Marshall gives me a sense of foreboding, but also a peculiar comfort. There is hardly any public info available about Blue Eyed Soul (at least that I can find), which adds a nice layer to the album, but man oh man those Discogs prices… this one will have to be one of those records I hope to magically find in a flea market one day.

    Muziekkamer – Op Zee

    Next to Giegling, Stroom is easily the label that most regularly inspires me to (day)dream. Op Zee is a perfect encapsulation of that hard-to-pinpoint feeling the label evokes. A window into our own adventure-seeking, incessantly curious and awestruck minds.

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  • going beyond the obvious with Squama

    going beyond the obvious with Squama

    Squama is a Munich-based label run by Martin Brugger, producer and founder of jazz quintet Fazer, and Maximilian Schachtner, head of design and founder of Daily Dialogue. Together, they have distilled a unique identity for Squama that carries over across their musical production and visual communication. 

     

    Beyond their keen sense of aesthetics is an entrenched yearning for discovery and uncovering the new. Amazed with their rigor and relentlessness, we spoke with Martin and Max about how they go about conceptualizing and orchestrating releases and their distinct approach to developing the label’s music and visual identity.

    Squama just started in 2019, but you already have a large catalog.

    Martin: Especially in the beginning of the first year, there was a lot of good music coming to us from within our circles. We thought, if there’s music laying around, then it should be put out. That’s what kickstarted the label in the start. Now we’re also looking for new artists to add to the roster and are trying to broaden our view. Even though we’re deeply rooted in Munich, we don’t want to be a Munich-only label. We’re trying to look beyond our borders.

    How are you able to keep up with the momentum?

     

    Martin: Perhaps it’s the luxury of having a label run by a music producer and an art director. As a small label, you can’t just hire a high-profile designer and a music producer to work on a record that in the end sells only just 300 copies. I guess we’re just like lucky in that sense that we have everything we need in house to make the records look and sound the way we want them to.

    O_S _ Squama _ Mood Talk 1

    The label is very closely rooted to your circles. How do you plan to expand your borders?

     

    Martin: There are two ways that the records we put out are created. The first is when someone would send us a nearly finished record, which was the case with Simon Popp. It’s also the same with another record we’re putting out next year from Damian Dalla Torre from Leipzig. Sometimes it just clicks and that’s cool.

     

    The other way records are being made is that we come up with an idea for someone or a group of musicians to create an album based on a specific concept together. That’s the case with the record with Enji. We’re not just a label. We’re also really producing the record: from conceptualizing the idea to going through rehearsals with the artists to booking studio time and actually being there in the studio, all the way to working on the artwork. 

    Speaking of artwork, is it mostly something you define together with the artists or is that something you just create based on the concept of the album?

     

    Max: Whatever we do, it always starts with defining an underlying idea or concept. Once we agree on a direction, it’s then a process of exploration and searching what would fit with the people behind the music. Have you seen the latest thing we put out?

    Triptych?

     

    Max: The artist Matthias Lindermayr is really into conscious eating and living. I’ve also always wanted to work with close-up food shots to create abstract imagery, so we came up with the ramen soup idea for the artwork of Triptych. Matthias cooked the soup, Lion shot parts of the video, and I took the pictures. 

     

    From there, it opened up a lot of other possibilities. The handwriting on the artwork is done by a sushi chef from this tiny restaurant in Munich. They have these handwritten flyers on the walls, so it was really nice to get him to write the title for the record.

     

    These are probably details people don’t care about too much, but we love to see how far we can stretch an idea.

    O_S _ Squama _ Mood Talk 3

    We’re just curious how you approach it as some artists may be married to a certain aesthetic or a certain image of what the music is in their head.

     

    Max: What we really ask from the artists is trust in what we’re coming up with. The more records we’ve done and the more things people have seen, the more trust we get. I realize that with Daily Dialogue, as well. The more of a solid body of work you have, the more people trust you and they know they will need to trust you. Even if they are not convinced in the first place, I want them to know they can be sure that they will be happy with the result in the end. It’s very important for us that we create something that fits with the artist and the label.

     

    That’s why I also think it’s important that artists really know what they do and know what they stand for. Sometimes we get demos where we feel like the artists don’t know what we’re doing with Squama at all. It’s important for us that we have a common vision.

    And what’s your criteria for accepting a demo for Squama?

     

    Martin: Either it clicks or it doesn’t. Max and I are mostly on the same page about this too.

     

    Max: Martin has the ability to hear two steps ahead and tell if there’s potential in the music. I totally trust him in that sense. 

     

    Martin: That’s true for the other way around too. Certain artworks need time to grow on me and I fully trust Max that they eventually will.

    Martin, do you see Squama as a sort of an extension of what you were already doing before with Fazer?

     

    Martin: What we did with Squama is just start a network that kind of spins itself. It’s cool that artists are also starting to work together without our doing. Simon Popp and Enji just recently met up to record new material and it’s definitely going to be a record on Squama. We’re also trying to spin this network wider than just the city walls. A good example, perhaps, is the record we’re putting out with Damian. He’s been working on the record with 20 musicians. I know some people who played on it and I already know that there are some people who will at some point hopefully put out their own records on Squama too.

    How does the energy of Munich inspire the label? What is it about Munich that makes it a good breeding ground for the label to thrive?

     

    Max: For a small city that is often described as uninteresting, we are surrounded by a very good group of people such as the guys running Radio 80000 and Public Possession who have a very good energy and a strong drive to develop their own ideas.

     

    Martin: Radio 80000 has definitely been a crucial factor for us in the past six years. After we did the first recordings with Fazer, we sent it to a couple of labels to no avail and the guys from the radio circle kind of gave me a push to put it out ourselves. They knew more about the music we were doing than I did back then. 

    O_S _ Squama _ Mood Talk 4

    So, how would you describe the sound of Squama to a stranger who has never heard of it before?

     

    Martin: That’s hard, but I think the minimalist aspect of music is foundational to Squama.

     

    Max: One concept that is also deeply-rooted to Squama is our necessity to go beyond the obvious. If there’s a straightforward solution, we always avoid it. We like to go one step further. In everything we do, we want to try to surprise ourselves. We don’t want to repeat ourselves too much.

     

    Martin: We want people who listen to a record of ours to instantly know it’s us because there’s a certain set of aesthetics that runs through our releases.

    Would you say that your releases are representative of the sound of contemporary music in Munich?


    Martin: A lot of contemporary music from Munich right now within the wider jazz realm is a mixture between acoustic and electronic club music. We’re trying to establish our own way of doing it. In a way, I would say we created our own stream of the Munich sound with Squama.


    Max: I think what we do is also just the result of the both of us doing it together with the things that connect us and the network we have. In the end, we can’t really define if what we do fits or comes from here. Of course, it definitely comes from here because we are both from here. But maybe it comes from here because we also don’t feel very much connected to what comes from here. It’s just that we do together that creates a result.

    Both of you do more than just the label. What does Squama mean for you?

     

    Max: The label gives me the platform to work on a lot of diverse projects that I can relate to content-wise. It’s nice to have a home where I can develop what I think is right or what I think we should do, without any compromise.

     

    Martin: For me, it gives me a bigger perspective. It’s also the comfort of knowing that in the end I will never have to sit on a record I want to put out because I don’t find a label who wants to do it. It gives me the platform to realize ideas whether it’s as an artist or as a producer. Because in the end, if Max is cool with it, then we can go ahead and make it happen. 

    O_S _ Squama _ Mood Talk 2

    Do you still put out music on other labels, Martin?

     

    Martin: If I’m producing or creating music, it’s always in the back of my mind to put it out on Squama. Half of the label taste-wise also comes from me and this is obviously also reflected in the music that I’m making, as well.

     

    The next record of Fazer is actually going to be released by City Slang from Berlin. As the touring side of things is very important for us, we decided it might be nice to work with a label with a bigger reach to fire up the live side of things. It was really hard for me in the beginning, because there’s obviously a conflict of interest in me being a part of the label and also being a part of the band. But I decided that it’s an important step for the band that we as a label can also benefit from, whether it’s just the knowledge that we’ve also put out other releases on Squama or that they check out the rest of our catalog too.

    So, what are you guys interested in exploring next?

     

    Martin: I would love to work more on my own music. I want to put another solo record out because the last one was almost entirely done in the first lockdown and I realized that I haven’t really found that much time since then to just work on my own music. I’m not that good at disciplining myself to work on music even though I love doing it. We also have some records lined up that I think we’re both excited to put out. There are also going to be some new and interesting productions next year.

     

    Max: It feels totally right as it is right now. We have really interesting projects coming up and every project is a new exploration of what we can do. It’s always nice to just dive into one world and then go to the next. As our network expands, we are also able to work together with more people we like. One of my best friends is a super good illustrator who developed himself into a really nice artist in recent years. He will produce an animation video for us. I would love to realize more of that.

    Any other collaborations you want to realize for the label?

     

    Max: Nothing top of mind, but as we always think of new ideas with every record that we put out, new collaborations always arise from that.

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  • sharing tonal sensibilities with Hugh Small and Brian Allen Simon

    Sharing the same tonal sensibility with Hugh Small and Brian Allen Simon

    You might know Hugh Small as one half of the Scottish band Vazz and Brian Allen Simon from his solo project Anenon. Vazz only played a handful of concerts in the 80s, but has been described by many as Scotland’s best-kept secret. Now living high in the mountains of Andalucia, Hugh has never stopped creating and playing music. Recent retrospectives on labels such as Stroom and Forced Nostalgia propelled the work of Hugh to a much wider audience. By doing so, it put Vazz on the radar of Brian, an electronic producer and saxophone player residing in Los Angeles. 

     

    An improvised recording of Brian playing over the Vazz piece Kazimierz catalyzed a long-distance collaboration. Hugh heard the recording on a broadcast of Brian’s dublab LA radio show. The pair soon established contact and started to exchange music with each other. Without a concrete plan or a fixed concept in mind, their exchanges eventually led to the release of The Side I Never See on the Amsterdam-based label Melody As Truth.

     

    Curious to dive deeper into this intriguing backstory, we spoke with Hugh and Brian about their collaboration. More than just learning about the making of this beautiful album, what we were heartwarmingly delighted to discover is a mutual respect between two musicians who just recently met online and live 6,000 miles apart. 

    It all started with that one improvised recording of yours, Brian. What inspired you to do that and how did you stumble upon the music of Hugh, first of all?

     

    Brian  I actually found out about Vazz through Melody as Truth. A few years ago, they made this massive Spotify playlist and that list included the track ‘Mission Statement’ by Vazz. When I heard that, I was like – what is this? I had never heard of Vazz before. I believe it was around the same time the first Stroom retrospective was just made available. I was quickly obsessed with Vazz and was just listening to Vazz a lot. The combination of these plaintive piano pieces and these more thrusting post punk tracks seemed really intriguing to me. 

     

    When the lockdowns started in 2020, I was listening to Vazz a lot again and the Kazimierz piece just kind of got stuck in my brain. I was doing all my shows from home and I had time to get creative. I didn’t really think about it too much. It was really quick. I recorded my soprano sax with my laptop microphone. It sounded good to me, so I put it in the show.

     

    Somehow Hugh heard it, but didn’t actually get in touch with me. The funny part is that I was just one day looking at the Bandcamp page of Vazz and he had put together a little EP mentioning saxophone by Anenon. I was just kind of confused, honestly. I sent Hugh a message through Bandcamp afterwards and we started corresponding after that.

     

    Hugh  I think a lot of it was COVID-related because everyone had so much time at home to browse and just google. I think that’s how I found out about your show and discovered you played Vazz in it. 

     

    It’s a real testament to how the Internet works – between you discovering something on Spotify and me discovering you’re playing over it on Dublab, and then everything that we recorded was all file sharing 6,000 miles separated from each other.

    Wow, so, you actually haven’t met each other in real life.

     

    Brian No, not yet. I hope to get to Europe soon and I’ll definitely make it out to Andalucia for sure.

     

    Hugh Well, I’ve also never physically met Ziggy of Stroom too. We’ve had a call on Skype, but I’ve never met him. This is the way everything works nowadays. You don’t actually need to physically meet people, although it is still lovely, you know.

    What made you decide to work together on an album?

     

    Brian I don’t know. I tend to not really even do that many collaborations. I’m such a solo artist and I think for a collaboration to work it needs a sort of innate understanding. 

     

    I don’t think either of us thought about it too much. I asked Hugh for piano tracks, and then he just sent me a folder with all of these things to work with. So, I moved all of my recording stuff to my living room, played the pieces over and over again, and would just kind of get in the zone. Most of the reeds’ takes are all just first takes. There’s almost no editing.

    Hugh Small | Brian Allen Simon | Vazz | Anenon | Melody As Truth | Mood Talk

    So, It wasn’t really with the intent of making an album together.

     

    Hugh It started with maybe one or two tracks, but then it just grew from there. I live in a little village in Andalucia with 800 people and we were under an incredibly strict lockdown. We couldn’t leave the village for two months. It was a necessity to take on a project of some sort. And just happily, this happened.

     

    It was the perfect thing, because it wasn’t just an insular project. It was actually communicating with Los Angeles. Although I was trapped physically, I felt I had the whole world to play. Every morning I would wake up at five in the morning and there’d be a little email from Brian with a new piece. It was fantastic. It was a really beautiful six-month period that we put all of this stuff together. 

     

    Brian There are three tracks that happened really quickly, maybe over a weekend or something. Those were feeling pretty powerful to me. I kind of just sat with those for a while and just listened to them over and over again. I was like – oh, these still sound good. After six or seven tracks, we started thinking this could actually be an album, so we started working towards that.

    It’s cool that you released it on Melody As Truth, as it’s almost like a full circle. Since it’s a very personal release, why didn’t you release it on your own label, Brian?

     

    Brian I actually haven’t released anything since 2016. I never made an announcement, but I don’t know what it is going to take to release another record on it. It was a cool period in my life, but I couldn’t do it anymore. I’m a crazy person, but you have to be like a really specific brand of crazy to run a record label, and I think I’m no longer in that specific brand. I’m fortunate enough to have people who want to release my music elsewhere and that feels like a gift. I’m completely honored to release it on Melody As Truth. 

     

    Hugh It was almost like another perfect match that just happened. Just the way the music happened. It all went great. We’ve established such an easy three-way communication with Jonny. The sleeves by Michael Willis are fantastic too. It’s just a lovely production and it enhances everything about it. To me, it’s the most pleasing thing I’ve ever released, even more than the retrospective releases. Because it’s the music from now rather than tracks from the 80s. I’m very, very pleased with it.

    And is there a reason why you decided not to release it under your monikers?

     

    Brian Hugh had actually written these liner notes that didn’t make it on the final cut, but he said something funny about us both having identity crises. I think that’s part of it. I actually had to convince Hugh to use his name, because he initially wanted to do it under Vazz. 

     

    Hugh Maybe initially I did, because it felt like some of these tracks were already accredited that way on the Stroom albums. But in retrospect, it’s perfect. It’s just our own names because we decided it was going to be very organic. Everything that’s played is virtually all by ourselves. There are no drum machines or other things like that involved.

    That must have been quite personal to share about this collaboration under your own names.

     

    Hugh It was quite a personal collaboration. It’s not just about music. We were talking about everything: from what was going on in the world to culture and literature and so on. So, it wasn’t just, here’s a track, get on with it. We actually had a lovely rapport with each other.

     

    Brian We were playing therapist with each other. (laughs)

    Do you imagine yourselves playing live together as well?

     

    Brian I would love to, though I know Hugh is a little bit more hesitant about that.

     

    Hugh Yeah, I’m not very good on stage. I’ve never been. I don’t think there’s going to be any change now. I can only really work on music on my own, which is why I can only work with people 6000 miles away.

    You don’t feel the need to share your music to a live audience?

     

    Hugh Honestly, I wish I could. I would love it, but I just can’t. I can’t even read music. Everything I do was always just by ear. When I get on stage, I would just crumble. Even with Vazz, I think we only played 10 times in five years and that was with the singer Anna Howson out at the front and I was always at the back. I was never, you know, getting on my knees and thrashing my axe. I was more like the guy in the Pet Shop Boys at the back.

     

    Brian I think I’m going to convince Hugh at some point. It doesn’t need to be a nice piano. Just get your guitar and we’ll just riff.

     

    Hugh Maybe for the third album.

    Hugh Small | Brian Allen Simon | Vazz | Anenon | Melody As Truth | Mood Talk 2

    Since you mentioned a third album, do you plan on exchanging more music in the next little while or are you probably already doing that maybe?

     

    Brian – Hugh’s been pushing it, but I’ve just been so inundated with life stuff recently. I would like to keep working on some stuff,  definitely. Hugh’s tracks are kind of like miniatures. Compact but dense and it keeps it fresh for me. They’re not too sprawling, but what you can do within that framework is enticing to me. I feel we have a very similar tonal sensibility. Just like Hugh, I don’t read music either. I’m a completely self-taught musician. If I sit down, I can read music, but I can’t just go up to some written music and play it.

    It sounds like it always mostly starts from the piano and then you just put your saxophone on top, Brian. Did you try it the other way as well?

     

    Brian Actually, that’s how this whole record is built. We didn’t try it the other way around, but I’m definitely open to it. Something just kind of clicked with that way of working. I think I had never really worked in any kind of formulated way before and there was something relieving to it. There’s a structure and I can just try to play with it and go anywhere I want to and that feels good. With my own music, it always kind of comes out of oblivion. I never have a plan. And sometimes I have periods where it’s not happening. That can be for two years or something.

     

    Hugh I’m kind of very OCD, so I have to work on very specific patterns and frames. I think it’s great that I can be very specific and Brian can then be free to go anywhere he likes. I think that’s why it works so well. It is very grounded at the back, which I think makes it very palatable for the ears.

     

    Brian There are also these synth and guitar accents from Hugh that shift the landscape in subtle ways, like a grounded piano time-based thing. In that sense, I was really trying to pick up on those little accents and notes in my playing. I listen back to some of these tracks and I hear these kinds of weird call and response moments that happen even though these piano pieces are fully laid out.

    The track Kazimierz is obviously an older track. Did you revisit other things from the past as well, Hugh, or did you really start new pieces?

     

    Hugh  All of the tracks except for Kazimierz have never been released, although the piano pieces had been recorded previously and I would just put guitar or electronic synths over them. There’s only one track that’s really brand new that has just got guitar in it and it’s called Veridians. That’s the longest track. It is three minutes or something. I have kind of gone off my piano phase and all I work on recently has mainly guitar in it. But that’s just how it works. Sometimes you just go through cycles. I also don’t have a piano anymore, so I’m kind of getting back to being more minimal.

    So you have a sort of repository with fragments from the past you can revisit?

     

    Hugh I’ve got so many recordings. It’s unbelievable. Probably in the last three years, I’ve got 100 instrumentals and I just accumulate them and see what happens.

     

    Brian Do you make music every day?

     

    Hugh No, actually not. I tried tuning my guitar the other day and it was so out of tune with the heat. It was just too hot to do anything. For me, it’s more of a winter project.

     

    Brian  I’ve been guilty of not working on music recently too, but it’s a different energy in the summer, for sure.

    What’s the trigger for both of you to start creating something?

     

    Brian That’s something I think about a lot. There are a few different angles that it can come from. Recently, I have been house-sitting in a place that has a piano. So I’ve just been playing a ton of piano and recording with my phone just for fun. Having access to a new instrument always spurs something on.

     

    The older I get, the more I also realize how much space from the outside world I need to make music. Going out of town for a week to just read and kind of get into that sort of headspace helps me to then sit down and actually be able to focus on one sound.

     

    Right now, it’s summertime and COVID restrictions are easing up, so I just can’t work as much as I would like to. But in general, good literature really helps to get the mind going.

     

    Hugh I think for me it was this location. By moving to Andalucia three years ago, I got a whole new kick out of making music. It’s a beautiful space to be. It’s incredibly open and it gave me a whole new perspective to making music. I also got a lot of stuff laying around here, which I used a lot in my music last year. Being at a new location always helps. I know Brian made albums in Italy and Greece too.

     

    Brian The last two albums were made at residencies. I definitely struggle consistently making work in Los Angeles. I’m kind of taking it on as a challenge to make another record here, because I still want to and I think it requires me to go way more internal, rather than just going somewhere remote and work. I love doing that and it’s easy for me to kind of get into the zone pretty quickly when I do that, but to sit down in your living room and just lose yourself in the sound is a completely different energy and that’s something I’m trying to work on at the moment.

    Hugh Small | Brian Allen Simon | Vazz | Anenon | Melody As Truth | Mood Talk

    But you do have some albums that are centered around LA.

     

    Brian Yeah, for sure. There was a record called Petrol in 2016. After I made that, I don’t know if I could do this again. I love that record. I think that’s probably the best thing I’ve made, but it was kind of exhausting at the same time. Also, my setup is getting more and more minimal. A lot of my synths break all the time and it’s getting too expensive to fix. So, I was like, what can I work with? I ended up working with a lot of YouTube samples, field recordings on my phone, saxophone and bass clarinet. There’s so much you can do with so little these days.

     

    Hugh You know you should work with some cicadas. They’re very cheap. (laughs) 

     

    But yeah, it doesn’t always have to be instruments. I sit here on my balcony every morning and the birds here are just so loud. I have a hundred birds as roommates. It’s just amazing. You don’t actually need anything else. Although, of course, there’s always a Spanish motorbike that flies down the street and ruins it.

    As you mentioned good literature as a source of inspiration, what are you both listening or reading to get inspiration from?

     

    Hugh I have always been listening to a lot of eclectic things, even when I was in my twenties. I don’t know if you know the music from Harry Partch, an American musician in the 60s. His work is just amazing. He made a lot of instruments from junk that are like toms and make marimba type noises. I love the album Petals in Petaluma. It was so ahead of its time.

     

    Brian – Marguerite Duras was definitely a big influence for me last year. Also Clarice Lispector, a Portuguese writer. Her short stories have been really fantastic. I’m also reading a book of Robert Bresson’s interviews right now. Paul Bowles’ The Sheltering Sky is also a constant. I try to read that every six months.

     

    Music-wise, I have been listening to this guy called Triad God. I think he’s like a Vietnamese Cantonese rapper who lives in London. He has a tape that came out in 2012 on the label, Hippos in Tanks, and that’s been on repeat recently.  I’m also listening to the new Tirzah stuff. I can’t get enough of her. There’s also some Miles Davis as always. The new Suzanne Kraft record called About You is really fantastic too.

     

    Hugh When I hear something new, I will just listen to it all the time. Most recently, the Floating Points album with Pharoah Sanders really stood out for me. It’s just so immense. I can just listen to that play all day every day.

    It’s interesting how you both mention jazz a lot, but you don’t really want to box your sound as jazz, either.

     

    Brian The spirit of my music, I think, comes from jazz. But what it actually is, it’s something else.

     

    Hugh A good friend of mine that is really into all types of film music actually told me the music is very filmatic.

     

    Brian I want to try to make things for deep listening. Something to put on and that’s the only thing that’s happening. You sit, you listen and you let it just kind of soak over you.

     

    Hugh I think that’s why all of the tracks were very short, as well. They’re quite intense. I couldn’t imagine us making a five-minute track.

     

    Brian Yeah, there’s a lot of notes. You can listen to half the record and feel like you got a good chunk of sound.

    That was definitely the feeling we had when listening to the tracks. The sounds are very immediate. 

     

    Brian – Oh, for sure. With two-minute tracks, you can’t make it too gradual. That was exciting for me too, because I don’t think I do that in my own music. I wouldn’t be as upfront with the horn, so that was a good exercise for me. That was my role. I just kind of come in and riff for two minutes and that’s it.

    Hugh Small | Brian Allen Simon | Vazz | Anenon | Melody As Truth | Mood Talk

    And what did you do differently in the album that you normally wouldn’t do in any of your personal work, for both of you?

     

    Hugh  I guess I did what I’ve always been doing for 40 years, just playing as I go along through an echo pedal. I don’t really have any different way. I build up tracks the same way as I’ve always done it and the first time I ever went into a studio was 1981.

     

    You know, that’s the way even the Vazz tracks used to always work. I would make the whole piece of music and then I would give Anna a cassette tape. She’d come back a few days later and give it back to me with singing over it. I literally could not work any other way. If someone started singing some refrain, I couldn’t put music to it.

     

    I’ve always been stuck in this same building up procedure of the music. So, I could feel it when it’s finished. But then, it’s never really finished, as I realized with Brian. For me, the piano tracks were finished a long time ago and I realize now they’re even better with saxophones and bass clarinets.

     

    Brian In terms of my own playing within Hugh’s framework, I felt like I didn’t need to restrain anything to fit. I understood these pieces totally on a level up coming from Hugh that I hadn’t really felt from anyone else. I think they created these beds where I could just come in and let loose on the horn and just not think about it and just really kind of dig in and play.

     

    Hugh I think it also worked great because we also had no pressure, as well. It was not like we were recording for a label and making an album. Nobody even knew that we were doing it. There was a lot of freedom to make mistakes or whatever.

     

    Brian  There was a lot of emotional room too, especially in the context of the pandemic. I remember making the track Myxomorphia. It was the first one we did and it had layers of tenor and bass clarinet. I went to bed, then I woke up the next morning and just played it on repeat and I was just amazed. This is something. It’s a cinematic track.

     

    Hugh I think the track sequence is really good too. Brian was the one who put the track listing together. It just fits perfectly somehow. I love the last track as well. I think Archangel is a great finish.

    So, what are you guys up to next?

     

    Hugh I’m going to start writing a small novella about the years 1977 to 1987. It will be my winter project. It’s mostly about life in Glasgow and all of the music things I’ve lived, including going into studios for some Vazz tracks and bands I’ve seen in travels and influences.

     

    Brian I’m looking forward to it. Hugh is an excellent writer.

    As for me, I have my hands full right now. I just started a new business and am also trying to work on my own music. I think music will always be there for me. It feels just innate in me at this point and it just kind of takes the right sort of stimulus. But yeah, I think that will happen in the fall when I have a little more space as things quiet down and people will go a little more internal.

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